Commons:Categories for discussion/2019/06/Category:Pages with maps

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Category:Pages with maps

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See also: Commons:Categories for discussion/2017/06/Category:Files with maps.
See also: Category talk:Pages with maps.

Rename to Category:Pages using Kartographer maps. The current name sounds like that of a content category (as if it's meant to hold map-related pages), but this is a tracking category for a specific extension. Nyttend (talk) 23:51, 15 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Nyttend and Acabashi: Closed (no objections; rename Category:Pages with maps to Category:Pages using Kartographer maps) Josh (talk) 21:58, 10 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Nyttend and Acabashi: Re-opened I am concerned that this move may have far-ranging effects. In fact it appears to be a hard-coded maintenance category. See Tracking categories and Template:Location for more info. Unless we a confidnet that such a move won't break a whole bunch of templates and functions, I think this one is best left alone. Josh (talk) 22:22, 10 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It’s not hard-coded—the category’s name is the content of MediaWiki:kartographer-tracking-category, which can be changed at any time by a sysop. It should not cause any issues (if it does, that’s a software error, which should be fixed, but this scenario is really unlikely), except that updating 14.5 million pages causes significant load on servers, but it should be manageable (and has nothing to do with software-level tracking category status, moving e.g. Category:CC-BY-SA-4.0 would have similar impact). —Tacsipacsi (talk) 16:05, 11 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Tacsipacsi: Thanks for clarifying! You are right, 'hard-coded' is not the right terminology to use. It sounds like it is doable, but I wanted to raise a little visibility and give the chance for some more input on this CfD before we close and make such a far-reaching change. Josh (talk) 17:09, 11 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Tacsipacsi, would you mind voting, if you have an opinion on the proposal itself? It would help if we could have a second "move" or if you could balance out the first one by explaining why this is a bad idea. Nyttend (talk) 04:32, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Nyttend: I don’t know. I don’t think this to be a such huge issue that’s worth the effort moving it, but I understand some do think so. So I don’t want to prevent the move, but I can’t support it, either. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 21:44, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Understood, and thank you for explaining. Nyttend (talk) 11:10, 17 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Nyttend: I would find a category for Kartographer maps alone very usefull, because it would at least give me a chance at finding examples. With media with just a set of coordinates piled on, it's practically impossible. --Hjart (talk) 08:53, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Hjart: Practically all (99%+) pages in this category should contain Kartographer maps—but many of them are map links (which show the map itself upon click), not map frames (which are visible in small size even before user interaction). Splitting these two types to different categories cannot be done within Commons alone (it would require software changes), but links and frames can be queried otherwise separately. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 23:47, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Tacsipacsi: ~90% are from Category:Uses of Wikidata Infobox with maps. ~20% are from Category:Categories with coordinates. What I would like to find are examples of manually added Kartographer maps, such as Category:Viking ring forts (which is in Category:Pages with maps only). Is there any other way to do that? --Hjart (talk) 04:34, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Hjart: You can use PetScan to exclude pages with certain templates. But this conversation is becoming really out of scope here, so in case of further questions, please ask somewhere else (e.g. on my talk page). —Tacsipacsi (talk) 21:43, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Is it possible to suppress Category:pages with maps on files who have Category:media with locations before moving the category? --Havang(nl) (talk) 08:07, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I know, suppression based on page metadata (namespace, root page name, page language etc.) is possible, but based on the page content itself (like other categories) is not. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 09:31, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree, don't see a reason not to move it. Today was the first time I noticed this category, and it seemed odd to have it in an image without any maps. It took me a minute to realize that it was related to the coordinates on the page. —Ynhockey (talk) 22:34, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have made a protected edit request for MediaWiki:kartographer-tracking-category so when a sysop has the chance to fix it we can hopefully close this discussion successfully. Josh (talk) 00:25, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

June 2024

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what's the point of this category? it basically is the same as https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?search=hastemplate%3ALocation or Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Location?
in view of https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T343131 , i think this should be  Delete. RZuo (talk) 08:30, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was wondering about that too. Personally, I use this category to check if categories or files are geocoded. (Took me some time to find out that it's called "Pages with maps".)
At least for Petscan, the benefit of this being a single category is rather limited, as it's not possible to query subcategories of categories it includes.
Another alternative might be "page metadata", but -- looking at PetScan -- it can't be used to query and the information isn't always present. Enhancing999 (talk) 09:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In any case, it should be renamed: Special:Search/map shouldn't list 40 million files. Enhancing999 (talk) 09:55, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Based on the previous discussion, I'd add a request to change the category at MediaWiki:kartographer-tracking-category to Pages with coordinates. If we agree this should be limited to categories, then a check for namespace should be included. Enhancing999 (talk) 09:16, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • A lot of people can use categories a lot more easily than complicated search strings or use Special pages or Petscan, me included (let alone end users). So I plea for keeping this category.
  • Would renaming affect Category:Media with geo-coordinates needing categories? If yes: then that should be solved.
  • I am stil PRO renaming this category to "Pages with coordinates". (But it involves a lot of files, subcategories and other pages, so I hope there is a tool to implement this change.)
JopkeB (talk) 09:43, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
i have no problem using as many cats as possible, but User:Ladsgroup they have a problem with the database.
i dont know what this cat is useful for. if you want to find in a cat all files that have coords, you can just use the link "Map of all coordinates on OSM" provided by {{Geogroup}} (which i integrated into Template:Category helper). RZuo (talk) 09:52, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you present a usecase requiring this category. Renaming this shouldn't require more than editing MediaWiki:kartographer-tracking-category. Enhancing999 (talk) 09:54, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As a precaution, I asked on COM:VP/T and User:DB111 (who does many cool mapping tools) if they need the category somehow. Enhancing999 (talk) 11:10, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
how do you use this cat now, that doesnt involve the use of "complicated search strings or use Special pages or Petscan"? RZuo (talk) 09:57, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly: I cannot remember that I did. But I can imagine that it can be used for maintenance and searching for files that have not geographic coordinates, for example together with a search term like a location or your own uploads ("Search not in category" in the tab "More", and then change the search string to your wishes, which is easier than figuring out other methods of searching). JopkeB (talk) 07:29, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
we could define a link to search non-geocoded images in a category. This would even be easier. Enhancing999 (talk) 09:11, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That sounds good! Where would that link be found, also in the "More" tab? JopkeB (talk) 11:54, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
yes. Enhancing999 (talk) 09:43, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I did some testing at https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Kartographer-tracking-category .
It seems it's possible to base categorization on namespace and the following would only categorize pages that are not files: {{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}|File||Pages with coordinates}}. Shall we go for that? Enhancing999 (talk) 09:46, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Enhancing999: I really do appreciate your efforts. But could you please be somewhat more specific, so that a layperson like me can understand it too? Is this an elaboration of your previous proposal or is it a new one? If I say yes to your proposal, what exactly am I saying yes to? What does the tool(?) do, what do I get when I would use it (a list of search results, or does it change something in a page?), when should it be used (in what situations), what problem does it solve, can you give examples? JopkeB (talk) 04:02, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's a way to implement the various proposals above: the name change (first mentioned 2020), the removal from files (based on the proposal by @RZuo, given the absence of a usecase for that usage).
The search for files with locations would be with Special:Search/building hastemplate:location (or with a gadget doing the same as suggested above). Enhancing999 (talk) 08:27, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This link works well for files with geographic coordinates. Is it also possible to have an equally simple search string for files without geographic coordinates? JopkeB (talk) 04:57, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
you can "minus" the search parameters. RZuo (talk) 05:59, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What should the search string exactly be? Because building -hastemplate:location does not do the thrick, you still get files with geo coordniates. JopkeB (talk) 06:32, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, it's Special:Search/building -hastemplate:"Module:Coordinates", otherwise {{Object location}} gets skipped. Enhancing999 (talk) 06:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes! This works well. So the search strings should be:
  • For files with geo coordniates (object and/or camera location): search term hastemplate:"Module:Coordinates"
  • For files without any geo coordniate (neither object nor camera location): search term -hastemplate:"Module:Coordinates"
As far as I'm concerned you can continue with developing and implementing the proposal. JopkeB (talk) 07:15, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps it is not necessary and too much to have this on the "More" tab, it will not be used that often. Perhaps one Help page for geographic coordinates, including (or with links to) all the pages and links for this subject? On Commons:Editor's index to Commons I see about a dozen links to more information. JopkeB (talk) 09:04, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If it's a gadget, users can choose to activate it. Improving documentation is always helpful. Maybe the documention of {{Location}} and {{Object location}} should mention it too. Currently neither mentions "Pages with maps". Enhancing999 (talk) 11:04, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment To implement this, I made the edit request at MediaWiki_talk:Kartographer-tracking-category#Change_of_category_(2024-06) and created the category description page at Category:Pages with coordinates. Currently there are 30,108,659 files, 65,542 pages and 2,192,714 categories. Enhancing999 (talk) 11:19, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see that Category:Pages with coordinates has already been made. Are we going to implement some actions before this discussion has been closed? My conclusion uptil now was that we want to get rid of this category, whatever name it has, because it causes technical problems (I forgot where I read it) and there is now a good alternative (searching with hastemplate:"Module:Coordinates"). So please, be patient. JopkeB (talk) 17:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Get rid of it for files, yes. This is what the above does. MediaWiki will take several weeks to complete the change, so yes, patience is needed. We will have two active category description pages in the meantime. Enhancing999 (talk) 17:23, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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